Potato Versus Peach: The Whims and Expectations of the Patron When It Comes to Portrait Painting…

35 thoughts on “Potato Versus Peach: The Whims and Expectations of the Patron When It Comes to Portrait Painting…”

1. I think that Stuart is right to be outraged(?) over the idea that people had brought “potatoes” and asked portrait artists to paint them in the image of “peaches”. Seeing the portraits of Stuart, Peale, and Trumbull, we know that they were trying to capture a certain likeness and energy that had exuded off of their portrait subject. Often a lot of these qualities that are portrayed are ones that the artists has to be able to see and experience for themselves. Its these kinds of characteristics that they experience that helps them in conveying the true likeness of their subject. I think for portrait painters, there is a sense of this imposter syndrome from painting their subject as someone they aren’t. It isn’t truly the subject if the portrait doesn’t truly reflect their personalities and – in the case of these portrait painters we learned about – their accomplishments.

2. I understand Stuart’s statement in a sort of more basic form. I see this statement as what is really is, which is that to actually capture a person as you see them may not be desirable to them. If someone has a birth mark or a missing tooth or other things of that nature, they would not want the artist to capture that. The artist in this statement shows that they would want to capture the subjects inner personality. If they are known for being kindhearted, the artist might depict them with a friendly welcoming smile. This does mean however that when we view a portrait we are being misled into seeing the subject as how they want to be percieved instead of how they actually are.

3. Sometimes people expect magic. Art is not magic, you can’t make peaches out of potatoes. People have thoughts in their heads, imagination, and sometimes just expect other people to see the same vision as well. Which, in most cases, can’t be done. The subtle characteristics of people, how they move and how they look and how they feel, most portrait painters will paint what they see, not what they feel. They will paint you what you give them, nothing more nothing less. Sometimes patrons can’t understand that.

4. As artists, there is this internal battle of various expectations. The expectation of the person who commissioned, viewers, and your own expectation and goals. When it comes to portraiture, I would say most artist aim to achieve the likeness of the person they are painting; not just on a visual standpoint but they want the character of the person to shine through as well. Portraiture back then was often for the elite, so idealized painting was almost a given; the elite wanted to be portrayed better than reality. So when I think about being given a potato and expecting a peach, I correlate it to that experience. Taking reality and idealizing it. But, as I said an artist, like Stuart, wants to capture outer and inner likeness, not idealization.

5. I find Stuart’s quote funny, yet very accurate. The way patrons view artists has always been a point of interest for me and upon taking various art history classes, it has been become increasingly clear to me that this complicated relationship between patron and artist is not a new thing. As far as Stuart’s quote, I find it to be accurate because patrons often just do not understand what it actually takes an artist to create a piece. They only ever concern themselves with the final piece, and they fail to see the hard work that goes on behind the scenes to create the masterpiece. Therefore, it would be hard to get a patron with no artist background themselves to understand how much effort an artist puts into a piece beyond the actual execution of it. Artists want to know more beyond just the surface because they want to create something memorable for more than just how it looks upon first glance.

6. Oh wow, I think what Gilbert Stuart so adeptly expressed is something that portrait artists and amateurs feel to this day. To the artist, the skill lies in the ability to capture the subject in a particular manner. They wish to stop time and create a likeness that is naturalistic and pleasing to the eye. The subject, however, is invested in an entirely different way. They come to this person not to make them appear as they are, but to make them appear ‘good’ – or great, or stately, or dignified… I suppose that depends on the reputation of the artist. The reality is that the greatest Generals and most Noble of men were as homely as the rest of us. They suffered through outbreaks and awful trends… powdered wigs, amiright? We all potatoes, but try not to look like it when pictured. Currently we do not rely on painterly types to capture our likenesses, as we have cameras and such. But with their prevalence, being pictured has changed very little. The majority of people don’t want to be photographed if they don’t feel they look good, or they will want photoshopping to enhance their appearance, or they will ask friend to remove unflattering shots from social media. Poor Stuart expressed a timeless debacle.

7. I 100% agree with Stuart’s quote, there are a lot of people that don’t understand how art is made. They usually only see the finished product and not the skills, techniques, real-life sources, or time that was put into it. The quote is both sad and funny because there are a lot of people still like that today. Though I don’t know if I can fully fault them because society often values finished products, or surface-level features, and not the behind the scenes work. There are a lot of artists that want to fully capture a subject, but patrons don’t care or just want a nice looking portrait.

8. Stuart’s quote I thought was very accurate in the sense that most of the time when people are asking an art piece, they expect to see the finishing product to be what is in their head and not the artist’s. The people that don’t fully understand art and know how long it really takes think an amazing portrait will be finished overnight. In reality, you can never rush art because if you do then the finishing product won’t be what the artist was hoping for or the customer. Overall, the customer should do their best in respecting the work that goes on behind making any sort of artwork because artists will truly appreciate it in the long run.

9. I can see how this quote can be interpreted as how artists, with the intentions of wanting to portray their patrons well and more accurately, create another layer or version of said patrons. The patron will be seen from someone else’s eyes when the painting is being done and the finished results will also be interpreted differently by the people who’ll view it. This is where communication between a patron and an artist becomes important so a compromise could be made between what is seen, what is expected, and what the results are going to be.

10. I think it is a funny way to state the issue that, painting portrait requires more effort, to an extent that you might end out with a completely different image in the end. The business is ridiculous as it seems, but it is a business that is quite popular, especially in a time when camera isn’t available (yet, I think camera cannot capture one’s likeliness perfectly either, it still requires some work). So, artists need to work their ways around to make the desire image happens. Vasari’s quote pretty much explains everything. The more you know about your patron, the more confident you are when painting. This quote also invites me to think about how people would portray themselves today. Portrait are not longer limit in realistic style, it can also be illustrative, abstractive, and many more. We are more attentive to the core, instead of the appearance as time progresses, or the peach instead of the potato.

11. This quote will probably refer to many today. It is quite hilarious, but somewhat hits close to home. I think that clients, or patrons in this situation, expect artists to produce exactly what they had in mind when that is certainly not the case. Many need to realize that artists can do so much and there is certainly a limitation of what they’re capable of. I think Grant’s comment explains it pretty well in this post. The finished result is generally envisioned by people and not the development behind the work. Some do not even care how the artist produces the work, only just how “beautiful” or “nice” it eventually looks in the end.

12. I kind of have to agree with Stuart’s thought about potato versus peach quote. There will be some people who will expect the artist to create something amazing and out of their expectations without any other guidance or direction to let the artist know exactly what they want. Once they receive their art, they become upset and will degrade the work saying it is not to their expectations when they didn’t give any clear direction to the artist in the first place and but the blame on them. To the point they will even not want to pay the artist at all for the hard work they put into it and waste such talent and time. I have seen this happen unfortunately to some artists I know that I follow on social media. It’s very unfortunate when commissioners expect these artists to know what they want when they don’t tell them the details and get upset when it’s not how they like it. They will even make call out posts or say derogatory things that are very inconsiderate to begin with. Artists will give it their own twist with how they’re envisioning the piece than the patron since they obviously have no direction of what is in their mind to be able to execute those things precisely.

13. I believe Gilbert’s quote about the potato vs. peach stems from the patron’s wish to be captured in a way that shows them they are unique and beautiful. No matter the gender, age, or personality, no one likes a bad photo of themselves, and I do not think Gilbert is referring to Potato as an ugly person so much as an average person. Every person is their own individual, and we only see the world through our eyes, so, understandably, even those who are not ignorant or narcissistic feel that they are more. Feeling special is not a bad thing, and we all deserve to have a mission in life. That is why I think what Gilbert refers to when he says a peach is what the patron expects the artists to capture. We all have things we are great or talented at, and people want those special qualities of themselves to shine. They give the artist an average person, potato, and expect them to find or know what makes them more and unique, a peach.

14. I really enjoy this thought that Stuart has; the thought of really trying to understand someones soul and capturing that. It seems an incredibly difficult task that an artist puts themselves in to really understand someone in such a short time of painting a portrait. I can somewhat understand why a patron would be upset; however, I think that if the patron is hiring an artist they should be expecting creative liberties that an artists will take. It kind of reminds me of something that is said frequently in the School of Architecture, “If a client start telling you how to make a design they are really just paying for a draftsman and not an architect.”. Part of being a creative person is having those creative liberties.

15. I believe it is a two way street and in that time period artists were known for their ability to create likeness in an image. That expected likeness came from the light in a person’s eyes and an slight wrinkle in the person’s smile. These small details can only be captured and appreciated with time. As a painter who must capture such details and create masterpieces no wonder the expectation would be that you would spend hours with their subjects. I can also see from another side of the patron they are painting though. While art was appreciated back then time was a luxury only for the wealthy and even then it was probably underappreciated how art takes skill and time to create these works. I think patrons believed that an artist was something that they weren’t and while not painter’s themselves wouldn’t be able to see why these fine little details would make or break a painting and sitting for hours would not only be valuable time they would use up but also patience in the artists work. It’s a hard subject to broach. Even in today’s times as a photographer I can understand that needing a subject to capture and having the luxury of time to do it is something that is not always in the cards. Artists have had to evolve a little to appease their subjects but also to make money that artists tend to have so little of.

16. Portrait painters had a desire to paint beyond what they could physically examine. They sought the truth in each person they painted, attempting to let their true selves shine through the portrait. This required a degree of intimacy and reality that not all patrons agreed with. My take on Stuart’s analogy is that the patron’s identity, that within oneself as well as outer appearance, is comparable to the potato. However, the patron wished to be idealized to a certain degree, expecting the peach. Idealization is not realistic and takes away from the emotion and personality that makes a portrait great. Stuart appears frustrated by the falsehood and impersonal outcome of painting idealized forms. Some people struggle with the image of themselves they have in their heads when confronted with how others see them. Especially when viewing themself through the intimate gaze of a portrait painter.

17. As someone planning to be in the graphic design field, we are taught that it is important to give the client what they want and not the want of the artist, but we cannot read minds and know what a client ultimately wants. For portrait paintings, Gilbert Stuart’s quote rings true here. Someone may commission a painter to paint their likeness, but it isn’t as simple as that. How do they want to be portrayed? How would they want to be posed? Should they be smiling? Are they to be doing something (like holding a book in Portrait of Benjamin West)? Should they be looking at the viewer (like the mother in Portrait of Rosalie Stier Calvert)? There are many questions to be addressed and would be hard to answer them if the client only asks for a “simple” portrait of themselves. Like Gilbert Stuart says when clients give you a potato, something average looking, but want a peach, a piece that is polished and acceptable.

18. I can see where he is coming from because patrons do not have the same eyes to see art the way an artist does and regardless of their patrons expectations and the artist can only recreate what they see in front of them. This leads to a lot of miscommunications that can be hard to deal with for an artist and even harder for the patron because they have deal with a reality check that they’re sometimes not as cool as they think they portray themselves to be.

19. I think that the quote is very true metaphor of the reality of an artist. People don’t understand the art process and the creativity behind it. They might not be perfect, but they dream to be painted like their dream self. The artist is not a magician. He can’t predict their thoughts or expectations. Also, the artist should keep his/hers style and can’t do miracles with clients insane expectations. I think that this quote is true, even nowadays.

20. I found the quote by Gilbert Stuart to be a bit funny. Initially I read the quote as Stuart being frustrated that people he finds ugly would commission him for a portrait and be upset when thy don’t like how he drew them because of how they look. However I do agree with Stuart’s quote in relation to the art process. Too often do people push their interpretations of the process to the art and expect something unrealistic. People often look for mind readers in artist in order to get exactly what they want no matter how complex it may be.

21. I really like this quote as I think it’s an amusing way to summarize the complicated relationship between patrons and the artists. Surely it can be considered a harsh comparison, but I think Stuart has every right to feel the way he does. There are many instances where people don’t care for the process and just want the end result. It’s understandable that people want to portrayed in an image of beauty. And although this can seem conceited, I think it’s human nature to want your image to be represented in the most positive way. Unfortunately, it comes with a price of demeaning or torturing the artist hired. It can be a tasking thing and can come problems because what if the way an artist has observed you is not the same you perceive yourself. In the end, it will be the artist suffering at the expense of the patron’s self-image issues.

22. I believe Gilbert Stuart’s thought about the potato and the peach makes sense in terms of both perspective and desires. To some people, they do not fully accept themselves for who they are. Some people view themselves as hideous, ignorant, untalented, horrendous, and meaningless. They would often try to avoid who they are, and attempt to hide themselves from the world. They hide their true personality, face, gender, interests, beliefs, and talents. These types of people with low self-esteem would often wish to be someone other then themselves. I believe this is the reason for requesting a “peach” in place of a “potato”. People with low self-esteem (the potato) would request to make their portraits more beautiful and meaningful, something entirely different than their original face (to change into the peach). They would request to be someone or something else other than their true selves. People would request a peach instead of a potato as a means to avoid their true nature and be replaced with someone, or something, more meaningful. However, it is difficult for artists to depict a peach from a potato in this perspective.

    In portrait design, artists are required to paint the faces requested by their clients. However, it is difficult for artists to design their clients’ portraits based on their imagination instead of their actual faces. Artists require reference to paint their clients’ portraits both accurately and successfully. They need to fully understand and envision their artwork before they start painting. Artists do not share the same mindset as their clients, as well as everyone else, therefore, they do not define beauty in the same perspective. Based on this, it’s difficult for artists to change their clients’ portraits to be more beautiful or handsome. Also, even with a detailed description, artists can’t develop the exact same portrait envisioned by their client without reference. Artists will need a complete understanding of their clients’ requests on how to paint their portraits. It is difficult for artists, such as Stuart, to paint a peach, because they can’t see a peach from the potato. Artists can only accurately paint the potato, because that is all they can see. That is how Stuart struggles from painting a peach from a potato.

23. I agree with Gilbert Stuart’s quote about the potato vs. peach situation of a portrait painter. Patrons might have an expectation for a portrait artist to fully and accurately portray them without giving the opportunity or the details for the artist to understand them. I feel that a lot of people tend to have this view with art in general where people may not fully understand the art process and have an expectation that an artist can create something with minimal information. Thus, when an artist asks questions for more details, sometimes the patrons can be surprised or, in worse cases, annoyed. In general, it is a process that most if not all artists will probably go through and one that can be alleviated with open and willing communication between the patron and the artist.

24. I find the quote to be somewhat humorous. Although it may be in bad faith to state that an artist is not expected to paint something ugly as beautiful, I do find some value in it. patrons expect an artist to portray them as better as they are and beautiful, but become disappointed with the end result where the artist painted them as they are. The blame cannot all go upon the artist. There should be clear communication of what is expected between patron and artist.

25. I truly agree with Stuart thoughts that ; the prospect of sincerely attempting to see somewhere in the range of ones soul and catching that. It appears to be a unimaginably troublesome assignment that an artist places themselves in to truly comprehend somebody in a particularly brief timeframe of painting a picture. Individuals have thoughts and imaginations in their minds, and at times anticipate that other people should see a similar vision also which isn’t possible. The unpretentious qualities of individuals, how they move and what they look like and how they feel, most picture painters will paint what they see, not what they feel.

26. I agree with Stuart. There is a lot of invisible imagery behind the subjects face. When I was younger I traced a photo of my face and it looked like an entirely different person than the one in the mirror. A large part of someone’s visual personality isn’t conveyed very well in unconfigured stillness. The right spot in the space between physical accuracy and caricature is indeed murky and a 6th artistic sense for character is needed rather than surface level observation is needed to navigate.

27. I think that the quote from Gilbert Stuart is rather funny because of the truth it holds. A portrait painting of a subject that you have not spent time with will be a reflection of the subject’s looks, but it cannot reflect the personality unless there is a personal connection. Because of this, I can understand that buyers may not like the end result. People often tend to see themselves as a better version than how they may objectively look and would expect as much from portrait artwork.

28. I think Gilbert Stuart’s quote definitely shows a frustration that many artists have to deal with when working with clients, especially those during his time that ask for portraits specifically. In art history the portrait has been used to show off certain aspects of the object/person being painted and the clients pay a pretty penny in order for it to be seen in the best light possible, which isn’t always how the artist wants to portray these things. It is like Gilbert Stuart says, sometimes the client will ask for the artist to make a piece a certain way when the eyes of the artist sees something completely different, and thus a back and forth starts which usually ends in a compromise so that the artist can get paid for his efforts.

29. I believe Stuart’s comment applies directly to the idea that a portrait is meant to display a personality more than just a depiction of features. Most people do not want to see themselves in a negative light, especially when having a portrait done that will exist infinitely and often expect the artist to depict them as more traditionally beautiful than they are. I believe Stuarts comment also refers to the personality that is depicted in the portrait as well. If Stuart studies you for a portrait and determines you to have a rough personality, you should expect the portrait to reflect this, and not an idealized version of yourself. To change the appearance or personality of a person would make the portrait an unjust representation of the person.

30. My first thoughts on the quote were those of confusion, but at the same time, I found it a bit funny.

    The added paragraphs certainly helped because without them I would have had the impression that he just didn’t like painting people that he considered unattractive. You can’t go to someone who depicts what is in front of him as what you see in your head, especially if there is a lack of communication between client and artist.

31. I think that Stuart’s quote is full of frustration and is something that I can understand and relate with. Most of the time, patrons are more likely to be fixated on the result of a portrait that they have requested, without considering what the artist is envisioning and seeing with their own eyes. These patrons went to an artist because they wanted their existence to be cemented in history, but they also wanted to be able to be shown in a good light. Many of these patrons see other beautiful portraits of people and expect that theirs would turn out just as nice or even better than in regards to the end-product. If someone wanted a portrait that had a deeper meaning and soul, then I think that clear communication between the artist and patron are to be conducted, as well as getting to know one another so the artist can be able to know what is beneath the surface-level of someone. I think that many people back then, as well as today, still see art only at face value. They care more about the end-result than everything else that helped build up to the finishing piece. They believe that an artist should draw them in the most majestic and elegant way possible, but that is an unrealistic belief, I think. At the end of the day, artists are just that. They are artists, not mind readers.

32. I value Michelangelo’s quote stating every painter can paint themselves well. Purpose is put into a painting/art piece when there is a deeper understanding of what is being created. An artist who had studied hummingbirds for some time will probably create a deeper more complex piece on hummingbirds than someone who has never really paid any attention to them. Taking the time to add value to your subject is what makes something art rather than just an image.

    However it is unfortunate, but true, that a lot of patrons do not see it that way, and expect artists that artists create things out of thin air. It is true that when it comes to a subject, especially if that subject is a person, to gain a deeper understanding of that person in order to create likeness.

33. Lizbeth Ramirez | Art 474
    Many people are potatoes and expect you to see them like a peach. Everyone has these different masks that they put on for others, but Stuart wanted to capture their true selves and not just what his subjects wanted to present to the world. In modern times we follow the same cycle, except it’s no longer with paintings but with pictures and filters. At the end of the day, we’re all potatoes craving to be seen as peaches, bright and juicy and full of life. The reality is that potatoes, or flaws in this context, are what make us human. Our physical and personality flaws make us all unique. So for an artist to take the time to really get to know their subject and capture not just the appearance but every little detail, even the flawed ones, is a beautiful art itself.

34. Stuart’s quote definitely highlights a frustration that many artist’s have and it has a hidden truth to it. When patrons commission you to paint a portrait of themselves, they expect you to exactly paint on what is exactly on their minds but don’t usually bother with providing any details that may help the artist to accurately depict that. Instead they expect the artist to completely come up with the ideas. In the case of portraits, there are honestly a lot more than just capturing the physical likeness of the subject. It’s the personality, how they carry themselves, etc. So if the patron wants to the artist to showcase that, they need to have ample communication with them or else they’re not going to be happy with the end product.

35. The quote, “What a business is this of a portrait painter! You bring him a potato and expect he will paint you a peach.” that Stuart wrote is about the struggles of making the client happy for a portrait painting. With Portrait painting people expect the best versions of themselves, but in actuality a painter is going to paint what they see by reference (yes, that would include a double chin and that ugly mole). The potato references the imperfections whereas the peach represents the flawless side of a person. The quote written by Michelangelo, ““Every painter draws himself well.” is a good observation because everybody will like what they draw themselves as because they know how they want to be portrayed as.

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